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djtima



Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2007-04-11

PostSubject: Map Choices...   Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:46 am

Hey guys my names tima, might have seen me round pub and ausdod in general... i ran last years OSL dods comp.
seeming that this is kinda new for you guys i thought id give yous a little advice, but not before giving you credit for putting a great amount of effort into pulling such a comp together.
you've done awesome getting sponsors and servers ect.

the only thing i can see that needs to be looked at are the map choices.


- Eisenbahn_b2
- Solitude_Comp
- Churchyard_b5
- Venteux_final
- Donner
- Avalanche
- Argentan
- Anzio

Anzio, argentan and donner are clearly good map choices even solitude_comp isn't too bad...
But Eisenbahn & Venteux are much too big for a 6v6 competition.
As far as churchyard goes Ive only seen it played in pub....
and its horrible in pub so i can't imagine what it would be like to war on.

in saying this... i would like to offer a couple of maps that i think will be better suited to a 6v6 comp. (Note: most of these maps are played by big American & European leagues like CAL and ClanBase.)


-dod_cal_coire
ftp://ftp.caleague.com/league_DoDS/dod_cal_coire.zip
a conversion of the old 1.3 chemmile is a favourite amongst the ausdod community. has 4 single cap flags, quite a fast map.

-dod_rails_b2
http://www.907th.com/file.php?id=625
A conversion of the old 1.3 railroad_b2. not as fastpaced as coire.
has 2 single player caps for either side and one central 2 player flag.

-dod_lennon
http://www.dodmap.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=26&func=fileinfo&id=455
once again another old 1.3 map. fairly new remake though.
has two double player caps either side of the map a central single player cap and a flag at both teams spawns.

Thanks for your time and i hope you's seriously look into using these maps. thanks to saber for getting links to the maps.
Good luck with the comp!
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coach



Male Number of posts : 36
Localisation : Melton South, Melbourne, Victoria
Registration date : 2007-01-27

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:34 am

Must say that I piss myself laughing everytime somebody suggests maps. Always GA maps that people want to run on before GA starts. Especially funny when you consider that eisenbahn is just another release of railroad and the same as rails. So how you can say it is too big is beyond me. If it is too big so is rails. Some clans would like to just play the 4 or 5 favourite maps that they know inside out. This is a challenge situation & equals the field a bit by having some good different maps that some clans will have to put some time into to learn. Some clans have been scrimming on these maps in preparation for this tournament & they are quite playable war maps.

Thought this was the RWS Tournament, not the GA Warmup Tournament.

SAW will scrim on whatever maps the organisers decide on. It is their tournament & they are running the show. If they want to change maps it is fine by us. But we will not tell them what maps they should be running.

The one questionable map to me might be Churchyard & the new version of lennon which has since been updated is quite good and is being played by a lot of clans.
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djtima



Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2007-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:37 am

I don't see this comp as a warm up for GA.
in-fact i see this comp as something bigger and better than GA, as the GA ladder only has 6 months use of one of there shit arse servers for a prize.

Rails is played by CAL. why would you go with a version made by some other dude?
As for learning new maps, its not that hard. good players will adapt, but learning a good map that is worth learning is another question.

team wu will also play what ever is decided. its just i think the maps that have been chosen aren't the best of the best.
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NeHmisis



Number of posts : 2
Registration date : 2006-12-02

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:55 pm

wow go organize a comp tima that never actually finished & when your comp is a success then somone may take you seriously~ lawl
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Horace
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Registration date : 2006-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:36 am

I will certainly pass this on to bt...
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djtima



Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2007-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:13 am

Or i could be a complete failure at dods like nehmiwho?

Thankyou horace, i think it would be for the better of the comp.
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coach



Male Number of posts : 36
Localisation : Melton South, Melbourne, Victoria
Registration date : 2007-01-27

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:53 am

Problem is that everyone has their own opinions on what is or is not a good map. It would be impossible to get everyone to agree on any single map. So if someone is running a comp let them choose the maps & then either play or don't. These blokes don't need the extra pressure from clans or members on the maps that they have chosen. They have issued their list, decide if you would like to be involved or not. I am sure that they had a look at these maps to see if they thought they were suitable or not. Maybe these blokes want to be unique & not follow the same old lines of other comps. Kudos to them, as until you have taken on something like this it is easy to criticise from outside.
This is not aimed at you Tima as there have been others making criticism before. JUST PLAY THE GAME TO THE RULES THAT ARE SET!!!!!!
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djtima



Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2007-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:04 am

I'd say i speak for more than half of ausdod.
maps that are played by big leagues are played for a reason...
because they are perfectly designed and have no bugs.

sure you could go with a couple maps that arn't always played, but why would you take second best?

why were the maps
Eisenbahn_b2
Churchyard_b5
and Venteux_final
taken over CAL and European comp maps?


Last edited by on Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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matrix



Number of posts : 27
Registration date : 2007-01-31

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:04 am

dod_thunder remake of donnor awesome map guys check it out
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Saber

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Registration date : 2007-03-20

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:34 am

Like me , tima actually knows what hes talking about
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coach



Male Number of posts : 36
Localisation : Melton South, Melbourne, Victoria
Registration date : 2007-01-27

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:00 am

Have any of you even scrimmed on the said maps? Bet not. SAW has been trialling them since they were announced and they play as good as any of your mentioned maps.

But you go ahead and follow the leader. Who cares what other comps are doing really. They are setting the standards and all the chooks are following. Ever heard of setting the pace instead of following it. I find a lot of people get tired of the same old maps all the time and actually enjoy the difference with custom maps. Agreed not all customs are good but some customs are as good as your mentioned maps. These maps that you refer to are customs after all & you are just giving them the OK because another comp says they are. So if next year if CAL, for instance, says that Venteux is included in their map rotation you will say it is good?

A successful business is built on taking calculated risks & hunches on what the community wants or needs. If more people would take this view maybe DODS in Oz could flourish more than what it is.
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Black Thunder
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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:28 am

Having read everyones suggestions and criticisms this is what I suggest to change:

Churchyard for lennon and possibly dod_donner for thunder.

I dont want to have the same maps as another comp, its like making a product that is the same as another one but with a different colour.

Also CAL has no effect on my decisions, nor does any other highly experienced group of people.

But those other maps will remain.

I Appreciate the concern for the current maps but I gave my reasons above.

Please also do not assume you speak on the behalf of other people, they can sign up and post here if they are that concerned with the map selection.
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Dave_of_Defeat

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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:56 pm

It's your competition, so you'll do whatever you like with it.

However, people like Tima and Saber stay abreast of the happenings of international competitions and as such, their opinions are more than valid.

Presently, with OSL having not restarted, RWS's Ladder only has the GameArena Ladder as "competition". Personally, I would like to see a tournament in OSL's style evolve again, as I believe that having weekly games on a fixed map makes more sense than the randomness of the GA Ladder. And I think that quite a few people would share that view.

I am highly skeptical about some of the maps, but I'm prepared to give them a try. 1.3's biggest problem was lack of experimentation, and it's good to see this ladder prepared to jump into the deep end with untried maps, but it would be a shame to see closemindedness either from the tournament admins or the participants.

But whatever; wu will be playing regardless.
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coach



Male Number of posts : 36
Localisation : Melton South, Melbourne, Victoria
Registration date : 2007-01-27

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:06 pm

cheers cheers cheers

Well said Dave!!!! Good to see someone willing to take the punt. Change is sometimes a breath of fresh air for people. You are skeptical but still willing to go ahead. Never know people might actually enjoy it.

Thunder for Donner sounds good.

Lennon for Churchyard also sounds good. Old version rc1 or the updated rc2 of lennon?

PS. BT & Horace maybe you should take a look at what Dave is suggesting regarding the weekly maps idea & set a fixture type event. The program is setup for challenge but lacks a bit in the organisation of matches area. It wouldn't take much to set it up as a set event fixture. Done a test challenge & clans have to add a lot of info themselves. Contact me if you want to know anything.
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djtima



Number of posts : 19
Registration date : 2007-04-11

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:31 pm

I'm glad that you listened to the community and adapted to suit...
good luck with the comp.

And just for the record i am the voice of the people.
think of me as the Nelson Mandela of ausdod.


Last edited by on Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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Black Thunder
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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:33 pm

Spill it all out Coach Razz

The fixed event idea, is that a match that has a certain time and map on the same day each week?


Btw I havent been around DoD:S to know of OSOL.
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matrix



Number of posts : 27
Registration date : 2007-01-31

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:00 am

im just glad to see ppl like your self black thunder organising these events,130 player signed up that's bloody awesome m8.its only going to make the community better.
like Dave said a weekly map fixture would be the easiest way to run the ladder.but would it stil be a challenge or a knockout comp?
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Black Thunder
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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:27 am

Challenge comp. Well I can't alter the comp this time but when I run the next one I will do the map fixture idea. You will get adventually the map fixture idea and it will be organised much better.

Now that I know how it all works it will be much easier to organise.

Look out for the upcoming newsletter to shed light on some more stuff.
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coldfront



Number of posts : 2
Registration date : 2007-04-13

PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:45 am

Pretty sure tima has more of a clue then half of you on here. So
how about listening to our ideas about map suggestions since we already know the grandfinal match.
wu vs uR
kthxbai.
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Dave_of_Defeat

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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:46 am

Is Lennon rc2 out? I was under the impression that rc1 was the current release.

If rc2 is out, it makes sense to use that, as it'll likely just be a less buggy version of rc1.

To clarify what OSL was - OSL had two divisions (Invite and Open) each consisting of 8 teams each. It was a 7 week regular season, such that each team played each other team once. A map was chosen for each of the seven weeks, and every match of that week was played on the set map.

Then of course there were semi-finals and finals between the top four of the competition.

Using this format, each team played the same number of games as every other team. I always found the challenge-based leagues a bit random (like GA) as your position often depends on who you challenge, and can also lead to a very small number of maps being played over and over. At least with the round-robin format, teams are forced to play a variety of maps throughout the season.

Each style has its strengths and weaknesses.
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Black Thunder
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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:24 am

Sounds like a good idea.

What happened to OSL?
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djtima



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PostSubject: Re: Map Choices...   Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:54 am

it went into holidays and everyone went inactive...
The OSL Server got taken down after that.
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